Great article, Vanessa. I completely agree with you. Sometimes I feel so sorry for the kids of these parents, given the disservice they are doing to their own children that I wish I could discipline them myself.

Yes. Some parents excercise no control at all and the kids run rampant, causing all sorts of noise and disturbance. Worth avoiding some places for that reason alone.

This is a GREAT website,
Thank you SO much!!!!!
Gabrielle Davis.

Let the market decide. If there is a demand for child free cafes they will emerge. The fact that there are no, or few, such cafes suggests that there are more bucks in the mum market than the sanctimonious singles market.

It's great to see such robust conversation but let's try to keep it civil. If you find yourself infuriated before you start typing, it might be a good idea to get up, have a coffee or a glass of water, and try to calm down before you craft your response. Accusations of 'child hating' or 'brat rearing' aren't nice, nor is name calling. Most of you are doing the right thing, but it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone else.

There is a current problem with adults with their children in public places .
The adults do not take responsibility for their children in these places and the rest of the public are expected to tolerate bad behaviour by the children and the adults.
The modern parent has turned off their receptors that hear screaming sounds and tantrums . The public are supposed to put up with it. Adults need their own space and have a right to a peaceful environment..

Go get yourself your own coffee machine and drink within the 'quiet' confines of your home! If you are out on a 'public' place - prepare yourself to be surrounded by others-duh!!!

You have got to be kidding. The problem is that there are very few places that make an effort for people with kids. The obligatory 'chicken nuggets' just doesn't cut it. Not only do children seem to annoy customers but generally the cafes and restaurants have no time for them either.
If more places became child friendly rather than trying to be trendy then a) they would become very popular and b) other places would by attrition become child free, keeping all happy.

Pats the philly way in richmond Melbourne are a new Gourmet steak sandwich bar. They make the best philly cheese steaks. A must try! simply awsome..

It sounds like you're not so much against kids as you are against badly behaved brats who run around shrieking and disrupting people's peace and quiet. Understandable. But not all kids are like this - an all-out baby ban would mean that even good parents who have made the effort to raise quiet, well-disciplined children would be excluded. So it would be discriminatory because it involves a gross generalisation. The best way to deal with this is the same way one would deal with any other annoying patron displaying inappropriate behaviour - ask the person to quiet down or leave. Learn some assertiveness skills before you ask society to make laws banning everything you think is annoying. Good parents shouldn't suffer for the mistakes of bad ones.

I applaud you for this article. Parents and their kids are free to attend and dine out in any restaurant they wish, and im not saying they shouldn't. Im saying why can't there be a couple of restaurants where couples or singles can sit in peace without having to listen to parents use passive aggressive techniqu es ti get their kids to behave.

Yes. I think there should be 'child friendly' and 'child free' cafes. I think cafe patrons should be given a choice as to the kind of environment they want to be in to enjoy their coffee.

I see this as a win for all parties - the cafes have a further point of difference enabling them to attract more customers within their particular market, the customers know they they will be among like-minded people and be able to do the activities they enjoy.

Given that many businesses now conduct meetings at cafes due to the increase in the work-from-home and small office trends, I think it's reasonable for someone to expect that they could find a suitable cafe to work in or conduct a casual business meeting in without kids running around. Likewise, I think it's reasonable for parents to expect that there are suitable venues available that cater for their children.

It doesn't have to be an 'us and them' kind of scenario, both parents and the childless can get what they want.

My partner and I are childless by choice, however we have many friends with children. When we're out with our friends and their kids we choose a great restaurant in Perth which has an enclosed childrens play area in which the children are in a glass fronted room. Parents can keep an eye on their kids, the children are entertained and other patrons can enjoy their meal without the noise.

I find that Little People on Lygon Street, Brunswick has the BIGGEST snowglobe collection, cute gift ideas and they have an awesome collection of dolls houses, furnitures and accessories. They even have Gomu's yay!

Go to a different cafe then

It is actually the parents that are at fault here. This is what we have created stay home mothers who are paid a very healthy maternity leave, to have coffee and let the kids run riot.

Come on mums and dads take some responsibility when you are in public and dont let the kids run riot. take them to a park to do that.

I'd like to see womensgroup-free dining. Your article reminded me of the many times a nice quiet meal with my wife and son has been ruined by a group of screeching ladies-who-lunch who sit there with six bottles of chardonnay and one entree to be shared amongst them. They seem to believe their recent news about their blokes, jobs and babies is to be shared at a zillion decibels. I know guys do the same but we tend to do it in the pub or club, plus we yell about far more sensible topics like cars, politics and the footy.

Turning to your original topic, as your article intimates, its more the parents than the kids. My son is 14 now but has been dining out with us once or twice a week since he was tiny. He loves restaurants and is more adventurous with new dishes than me, but he knows the etiquette. When little he happily read a book when not eating or used the crayons and paper often provided. Now he joins in with our quietly spoken discussions. You can't blame the kids for ignorant parents who think its fine to allow Molly and Tarquin to disturb everyone else so long as it permits the parents an undisturbed meal. Near us, we have two restaurnats side by side and I've seen parents encourage their kids to run around in the other establishment in order to keep the noise down in theirs!

I also blame the restaurants who are too timid to ask parents to control their kids. The staff see whats going on but do nothing, and therei are a number of places we won't return to because we know they sit back and do nothing. If the parents won't do something it is the restaurants duty to their other customers to ask the parents to speak to their kids, and if that costs them a tip then so be it. And why do so many places insist, on a quiet night, in sitting the only two tables of diners right next to each other?

But to finish, I have no problems with the concept of adult only dining hours. We are usually in and out by 7.30pm so something like no families after 8pm would not bother me in the least. Most cruise ships encourage families to dine in the first dinner sitting so the later sitting can be mostly adults. Other than that, a notice on the door and on the menu saying "Well behaved children are most welcome. Unruly customers of any age are not".

Why can't the kids just behave? Start them young learning how to respect other people.

I have 2 children (aged 4 and 3) and I had them late (I am 45) so I think I can safely say I have been on both sides of the fence.
I feel for the cafe dwellers during the day, but there are plenty of cafe's out there so I think child free cafes are good for those who would like to have a quiet cup of coffee.
There are not enough places for dinner though. Most parents would be happy to feed their children between 5-7pm. I enjoy good food so I am not a fan of most child friendly places; usually those that include a play area!
I think I have found the perfect place to eat with children. I'm not sure whether I can type the restaurant's name but it is a Greek restaurant in Brunswick. It opens at 5:30pm and they are keen to feed you and your family quickly so that by the time 'adult only' diners come in families are usually ready to go home.
There is also a Japanese place in Brunswick that provides the same service.
We need more of these places!

Tho tho on Victoria street, Richmond - my friend and I have been dining there since the day it opened some 20 years ago. Fav dish is the satay beef.
In the CBD Pho on Russell st is a must, the rare chicken and beef pho is amazing:-)

Had an awesome time there today... they had 2 levels and quite a few different stalls with heaps of great stuff... I bought two dresses and an beautiful vintage bolero jacket. Band was really cool, and the cupcakes were yum as. Will definitely be back!

Some states in the US actually allow employers to pay below the award rate in the expectation that the difference will be made up in tips. Hence the reason it is expected in the US and has spread like a cancer to other parts of the world where the need does not exist.
In Australia there are minimum wage standards which includes loadings for holiday and sick pay as well as overtime and public holiday rates. There is no similar provision in the US.
This tipping nonsense needs to be properly understood. Like many others, I will not tip unless the service is something extra special (very rare) and I have traveled extensively in Europe where I only occassionaly tipped. Tipped more often in Thailand and Cambodia where there was a willingness to provide good service

And for you great London readers out there, think of dollars as pounds for tip # 8. Happy reading Justine :)

What a variety of galleries, collections and displays you've managed to track down... I'm definitely adding these exhibitions to this year's to-do list. I'm particularly looking forward to Human Kind, Sweets: Tastes and Traditions from Many Cultures, and Wallace and Gromit's World of Invention. How fun!

I lived in Ghana back in the 1970s and am sad to see that while the country has made a lot of progress, children can still be so badly treated. I hope the governmentin Accra will be shamed by exhibits and articleslike this into doing something about child slavery.

Jacques Raymond has to be in this list, Expensive yes, could you cook it at home no. Fantastic

First and Last Hotel in Pascoe Vale

One of my favourite things about Melbourne is its eclectic lane ways and hidden cafes. It's a great, inexpensive day out. There is clever graffiti down Croft Alley, yummy restaurants down Hardware Lane, and boutique shopping in just about every other crevice. Put your comfy shoes on and go for a wander - you'll love it.

Polly not so kool for diabetics !

Jacques Raymond anyone?